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fallenz24 
I lost count...

Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3770
Location: Pensacola, Florida



1991 Cavalier RS 1990 Cavalier Z24 1987 Fiero SE 1994 Sentra Se-r
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That's a very badass setup! I bet you can't wait to drive it!
How much of a pressure drop do you think you will have with the IC mounted up front? I think you are really headed in the right direction. Good luck with it! You are doing all the 660 Fiero guys proud!
-Joseph_Cooley
_________________
 1990 Z24 - Modified 3100 ~ Recycled! Gave it's heart to the Fiero.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5fN2n1egmE
1987 Fiero SE - 2.8L turbo/Auto ~ Kaboom! 3100 / 4T60E swap complete! |
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josephupson 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 162
Location: home, Florida

1986 Other
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| fallenz24 wrote: | That's a very badass setup! I bet you can't wait to drive it!
How much of a pressure drop do you think you will have with the IC mounted up front? I think you are really headed in the right direction. Good luck with it! You are doing all the 660 Fiero guys proud!
-Joseph_Cooley |
I'm not quite sure of what to expect pressure wise across the inlet plumbing but it shouldn't be to much of a restriction with that low a pressure. The air did come out very cool when I revved the motor to create some airflow at the throttlebody.
The guys on the Fiero Forum unfortunately are still trapped in the iron ages (3800) so they don't appreciate the power potential of the aluminum head engines yet. I believe on 7 psi it's going to produce a lot more power than the 3800 SC. Since I have a small amount of work left to finish the car I'm going to try hard to get it dynoed.
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thesick 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Where the hell am I?

1992 Cavalier Z24 2003 Mustang Cobra
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My SR20DET sounds beefier--what's up with that?
Awesome project though.
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scott0999 
10k Rollover

Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 10069
Location: WI



1994 Cavalier Z24
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cant wait to see this thing in action
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there is no replacement for displacement. besides boost that is.
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josephupson 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 162
Location: home, Florida

1986 Other
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Finally got to testdrive it and as expected it is much quicker off the line than before with the camshaft fully advanced. It doesn't chirp the tires as easily but that's partly because they are low on pressure making better traction and I'm not revving the engine as much as before on launch I don't believe.
At some point I need video outside of the car and also need to get on the interstate so that I can safely take it up to higher than city speeds, on the little strip of road I stick to mainly 1-2 shifts but even with that you can tell it has a strong top end as it never fell over as high rpm was reached. I may not need to retard the cam at all to get the most out of it.
There are so many little technical things to do that I keep running out of time and had no time to tune as there are many lean spots in the higher rpm range and for the first time I just realized that maybe the cam regrind to high rpm performance, coupled with the full advanced position and the lean areas up top suggests the best performance can be had with the cam fully advanced since it is already biased towards higher rpm performance.
The intercooler results are just down right impressive and should have given at least a 10% power increase with inlet air temps going from 212 deg F to 100 deg F at 7 psi. I'm pretty confident that given it took an extremely lean condition at 7 psi to get 1 deg of timing retard there is plenty of room to run 10 psi and possibly a little more without the aid of my water/meth kit.
I want to get it dyno tested as soon as I can.
Here is a link to the video which has a demonstration of the VVT operating in it. I may have to come back and redo the link once the video is processed since I'm admin and the link comes up differently for me.
http://user.streetfire.net/video/Latest-test-with-and_638353.htm
| Description: |
| Air temps after intercooler installed. |
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21 KB |
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871 Time(s) |

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| Description: |
| Air temps before intercooling |
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75.35 KB |
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16 Time(s) |

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josephupson 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 162
Location: home, Florida

1986 Other
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thissen_151 
Post Whore

Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1381
Location: Whitby, Ontario



1992 Cavalier RS Coupe
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that thing sounds amazing! pretty damn quick too i love it
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 1992 RS 3.1 3spd - RIP Sept '08 |
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josephupson 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 162
Location: home, Florida

1986 Other
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Still didn't get much if any tuning done although some extremely lean areas in the low rpm range were cleared up and probably pushed to the opposite extreme.
Advance Auto Parts shift cables need to be replaced with better quality cables, they are not rigid enough and can not take the heat, I left the car with a seized selector cable. You can note the delay between the 1-2 shift at the beginning of the video due to flimsy shift cables.
On a half tank of 87 octane the car ran very strong at what appeared to be as much as 8 psi, there is plenty of room for improvement at that boost level with higher octane fuel and installation of the alcohol injection kit. The two changes together should make 15 psi very easy and probably attainable with just one or the other. 12 psi should be more than enough given how strong it runs at 7psi.
Unfortunately the datalogs were saved to a corrupt file I discovered a little while ago so I have nothing to take snap shots of to show inlet temps and boost pressure.
I removed the mufflers as a precaution since the body supports have not been installed yet. Hopefully it will be finished by the end of the year.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Testing-with-without_680592.htm
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barrok69 
* Newbie *

Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 5708
Location: Windsor/Detroit

1990 Cavalier Z24 1986 Cavalier RS Convertible 1989 Cavalier Z24 1992 Cavalier Z24
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time to get the suspension upgraded ?? lol. That ass sag is as bad as a stock z24. lol
looks quick. even quicker with suspension work!
_________________
 -=Яob=- 14.99 @ 91.33mph ---- 167hp, 193ft-lbs @ the wheels
1990 Z24 3400 3spd
SSCAVY aka. Michael Mancino is a thief, i'm out $1400 and nothing to show for it. |
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SuperDave 
13 sec N/A club

Joined: 02 Apr 2002
Posts: 22657
Location: Quad Cities, Iowa



1991 Cavalier Z24 2008 G6 2006 Trailblazer LS 1989 Camaro
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Lol @ 3:40..
Nice vid, it's got a very healthy idle
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fallenz24 
I lost count...

Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3770
Location: Pensacola, Florida



1991 Cavalier RS 1990 Cavalier Z24 1987 Fiero SE 1994 Sentra Se-r
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The car seems to run and drive pretty well. I would have thought it would be fasted thought. Is the tune that far off? It just doesnt seem to have the launch that it should.
Also, how did you run the ic piping? I'm thinking of doing a fmic on my car too. I was just thinking of running 2in. pipe down the sides by the rockers. Is that what you did?
-Joseph_Cooley
_________________
 1990 Z24 - Modified 3100 ~ Recycled! Gave it's heart to the Fiero.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5fN2n1egmE
1987 Fiero SE - 2.8L turbo/Auto ~ Kaboom! 3100 / 4T60E swap complete! |
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josephupson 
Dedicated Member
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 162
Location: home, Florida

1986 Other
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| fallenz24 wrote: | The car seems to run and drive pretty well. I would have thought it would be fasted thought. Is the tune that far off? It just doesnt seem to have the launch that it should.
Also, how did you run the ic piping? I'm thinking of doing a fmic on my car too. I was just thinking of running 2in. pipe down the sides by the rockers. Is that what you did?
-Joseph_Cooley  |
2 1/8" tubing, the tune is still way off, in the video note the take off from the third light during the trip back, it is more aggressive and spun the tires quite a bit relative to all the previous launches although I used about the same effort on the previous launches. Spark timing and fueling needs to be ironed out across the board that's why there is no consistency.
It's very fast although power on take off has room for more improvement it is a compromise that leans toward high performance due to the camshaft regrind, even with the cam fully advanced to the 10 deg stock locked position it still has a lope and as has already been mentioned the front end raising as high as it does on take off doesn't help.
Some of the issue maybe associated with the cam position, when it was fully retarded I could chirp the tires between shifts easily but with it fully advanced it doesn't seem to do that as easily although it still feels faster and the vacuum has increased towards the normal range.
I probably should have used the stock camshaft and looked into a regrind later since GM ground this cam with the proper characteristics for proper efficiencies over the advance retard range, you can see the difference in a simulator and if the cam is literally being retarded beyond 0 deg my simulator shows a loss in power along with the shift towards higher rpm.
I did a mock up degree angle and fully retarded at TDC the cam only appears to be retarded about 4 deg and not the previously suspected 15 deg which showed a huge power reduction compared to the stock cam at the same angle. The wide stock lobe separation which I had narrowed plays a big part in that according to the dyno simulation so for those aspiring to do this swap, leave the stock cam alone except for maybe a little more duration, otherwise a simple on off switch activated at about 3500 rpm will give you the best of both worlds since the cam produces peak power at 6000 rpm stock.
A nice addition to the Tunerpro software would be an algorhythm with trigger points that could measuring acceleration times from X mph to X mph so that you could easily see improvement or detriment resulting from tune changes.
The power in this car is still mostly up top, the dyno will give the needed info about the power output but once everything is all buttoned up and tuned properly and the boost is turned up to about 10-12 psi it should be hard to keep in a straight line.
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dukie 
V6Z24.com 0wnZ me

Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 2429
Location: MN

1994 Cavalier Z24 2006 Accord LX
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Your BOV sounds like a dog getting beaten Where is the PSSSHTTT?
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phenolic
Post Whore

Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1350
Location: OakL MI

1992 Cavalier RS Coupe
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I like the last few minutes.
Florida.... I like that place.
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fallenz24 
I lost count...

Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3770
Location: Pensacola, Florida



1991 Cavalier RS 1990 Cavalier Z24 1987 Fiero SE 1994 Sentra Se-r
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