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syn * Newbie * Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 5742 Location: oxford, Michigan 1993 Cavalier Z24 1998 SC Series 1998 Camaro Z28	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Six_Shooter wrote: Hey Kenton, have you tried using windsheild washer fluid? Apparently, there's at least a few mixes out there that have the same properties as H2O/Alky mix. For those of us in the North, this will help on the cooler nights. very interesting as well _________________ 1998 z28 head and cam car 11.3x@121 no 3rd gear 1999 corvette sold 1998 z28 6speed 408 ls2 stroker sold
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scott0999 10k Rollover Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 10146 Location: WI 1994 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: whitelightning2 wrote: man, you owe me a new keyboard, mouse and monitor. Nice numbers! x2
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Julus94ZRS Addicted Member Joined: 29 Jun 2001 Posts: 431 Location: Ottawa Baby! 1994 Cavalier RS	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Kick ass man..!! _________________ Ottawa's Heaven Night Club
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mars_man Silver Bullet Joined: 16 Oct 2001 Posts: 3548 Location: Chelmsford, ON 1991 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Damn, thats alot of beans! _________________ 12.10 @ 119.8 91z24 wrote: You shouldn't have to use ketchup on a good poutine
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benz88 Can't get enough Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 6128 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba 1993 Town CAR Signature 1991 Jetta GL	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: needed to be longer, thats just teasing haha. _________________ RE Audio Equipped.
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silverghost Mboard Overdose Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 789 Location: Surrey, British Columbia 1991 Cavalier VL Coupe 1991 Camaro Z28	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: 89jyturbo wrote: I'm going to tell Wiseco the pistons better be good for at least 400 crankshaft HP all week long and twice on tuesdays. With a 15% drivetrain loss, the flywheel HP on my car would be about 385. But I don't know if 15% loss is correct for the drivetrain or not. How can drivetrain loss be percentage based? Its fixed. A local guy with a 3400 in a 2nd gen using 3.1 injectors and a reground cam. makes 159Hp at the wheels. I believe that is with the stocks 15" rims aswell. Now assuming that with the 3.1 comp it would make 185 HP or so with the cam at the crank. The extra cam lift would make up for the poorly tuned computer. Thats right where your estimated 15% loss is. But it's not 15%, it is a 26 HP loss for drivetrain. Just because you doubled his power to 329HP, does not mean that it takes twice as much power to turn your drivetrain than it does for him. It does not make sense. You can probably bump the loss up a bit because you have 17" rims. So we will say 35 HP loss instead. So 364 HP at the flywheel would be a more accurate estimate. _________________
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Six_Shooter Ran out of titles Joined: 25 Aug 2002 Posts: 19040 Location: ,,,(>_<),,, 1985 S15 Jimmy 1985 SkyHawk 1998 Malibu 1984 Other 1973 240z	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: silverghost wrote: 89jyturbo wrote: I'm going to tell Wiseco the pistons better be good for at least 400 crankshaft HP all week long and twice on tuesdays. With a 15% drivetrain loss, the flywheel HP on my car would be about 385. But I don't know if 15% loss is correct for the drivetrain or not. How can drivetrain loss be percentage based? Its fixed. A local guy with a 3400 in a 2nd gen using 3.1 injectors and a reground cam. makes 159Hp at the wheels. I believe that is with the stocks 15" rims aswell. Now assuming that with the 3.1 comp it would make 185 HP or so with the cam at the crank. The extra cam lift would make up for the poorly tuned computer. Thats right where your estimated 15% loss is. But it's not 15%, it is a 26 HP loss for drivetrain. Just because you doubled his power to 329HP, does not mean that it takes twice as much power to turn your drivetrain than it does for him. It does not make sense. You can probably bump the loss up a bit because you have 17" rims. So we will say 35 HP loss instead. So 364 HP at the flywheel would be a more accurate estimate. Actually percentage IS the most accurate way to rate the losses, due to inertia, factoring moment of... mass, where that mass is, etc. To apply a percentage is the easiest way to determine drivetrain loss. 15% is pretty much a standard percentage for manually shifted vehicles, Autos are generally at 17% to 20%. You can also measure this loss by HP as well, but needs to be verified at the actual input HP again, due to the factors I listed above. _________________ Midnightriderz24: Where's my Emulator that I paid for? The Surgeon General never said anything about smoking the competition!
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Brad91Z Ran out of titles Joined: 04 Jun 2001 Posts: 16659 Location: Algonquin, IL 1992 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Damn, great numbers. We all knew that your car was powerful, but I wasn't expecting that much power! I would love to see the dyno sheet if you have it scanned in. Great job! Brad _________________ majorz24 wrote: Moon is like an exotic dancer for J-bodies, he only works for tips.....
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midnightriderz24 Gave my left eye to keep posting Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 4022 Location: Appleton, WI (Chicago right now for college) 1990 Cavalier Z24 2001 Other 1989 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Six_Shooter wrote: Hey Kenton, have you tried using windsheild washer fluid? Apparently, there's at least a few mixes out there that have the same properties as H2O/Alky mix. For those of us in the North, this will help on the cooler nights. i read in a chevy performance book, they used 75% HEET and 25% water, im looking into making a I/C sprayer right now. so six or kenton, what do you think ill put down 10psi intercooled with 22lb injectors/tgp chip and alky injection? im curious... ill find out for sure next month tho.. _________________ UTI 2008 ASE Master Certified. GM Certified. 12.268@117... 11's to come! The youngest 3400 swapper *STILL* Turbo lag: The time you wasted before you bought a turbo! 358WHP & 365Ft lbs. TO THE WHEELS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUqJyopd720
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MrPaulo I lost count... Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 3684 Location: Buffalo, New York 1993 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Six_Shooter wrote: Kenton; I was a skeptic before seeing your results with the H2O/alky injection, but now I may devise a system for it for the truck, I was planning on using a Nitrous system which I may still do, anyway. But I'm really leaning towards the H2O/Alky system, since I could *cough* use it on the street *cough*. I'll be contacting you in the near future about ideas, and such. I've also thought about Propane injection, but I think I'll stick to something less volitile. hey man i might be livin in brantford over the summer so maybe we can get together and rig up a nice little system to use on both our cars. ive always been a lil skeptical of these set-ups as well but this is def swaying my decisions.
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z_two_4 Post Whore Joined: 28 Apr 2002 Posts: 1653 Location: Ontario, Canada 1984 Cavalier 1985 Cavalier Coupe 1992 Lumina	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: great #'s! Six_Shooter wrote: Hey Kenton, have you tried using windsheild washer fluid? Apparently, there's at least a few mixes out there that have the same properties as H2O/Alky mix. For those of us in the North, this will help on the cooler nights. my friend used washer fluid on his mustang, it worked great. he used the CarQuest stuff I beleave. he didn't get a chance to get any good times in at the track with it cause he had some other fuel probs when he went. it cooled the intake temps alot you could put your hand on the plenum after beating on it and not burn your hand! _________________ 1992 lumina 3.1L 3spd 17.02@79.87mph 1984 type 10 hatch 3100 5spd 14.96@91.47mph in the 1/4 9.63@74.36mph 1/8th 14.30 full interior on slicks! now a pop can! POWERSHOP PORTING SERVICE need port & polish work done? PM me!
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89jyturbo Post Whore Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 1009 Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania 1989 Cavalier Z24 1989 Other	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Here is a little better video. It has three runs on it, and is large, ~6.5MB. http://www.khturbo.net/rmtz24/Z24DynoMovie.wmv And a dyno sheet: (Click to view larger size) _________________ www.khturbo.net 1989 Z24 5-speed '02 3400 V6, 16psi of Turbo Best 1/4- 11.9 at 119 328HP/352TQ to the wheels HOT ROD Drag Week 2008
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89jyturbo Post Whore Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 1009 Location: Lancaster, Pennsylvania 1989 Cavalier Z24 1989 Other	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Alky Injection: There is a lot of good info out there. The turbo Buick guys seem to really have the system ironed out. Probably because they have had success using it for 20 years or so now. There are a lot of mixture combinations being used. The alcohol itself is a good antifreeze. I run about 50% Denatured alcohol ($8usd/GAL at paint or hardware stores) and 50% water (I ran 70/30 mix with my 2.8 because it ran lean on the top end with 10psi of boost and stock injectors). I add a little washer solvent, just to give the mixture color, otherwise, I can't easily see how full the tank is. I have a transparent universal coolant overflow tank mounted down low behind the passenger side headlamp to hold the alky mix. The pump is mounted to the same bracket that holds the tank (see pics on my site). I need to use a long funnel to fill the reservoir. I used a one-way check vavle in the hose between the pump and the nozzle to keep fluid from being drawn into the engine unless the pump is running (the valve opens at 7psi). I adjusted the SHURflo pump to output 80psi of pressure, some guys like to run an even higher injection pressure. My nozzle is placed in the TB inlet elbow, after the IAT sensor. The guy at the dyno shop says they recommend installing the nozzle before the IAT sensor. That way when the alky is spraying, it's rapid evaporation cools the charge air (and IAT sensor), which causes the ECM to increase ignition timing (and power). Lots of stuff to think about _________________ www.khturbo.net 1989 Z24 5-speed '02 3400 V6, 16psi of Turbo Best 1/4- 11.9 at 119 328HP/352TQ to the wheels HOT ROD Drag Week 2008
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scott0999 10k Rollover Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Posts: 10146 Location: WI 1994 Cavalier Z24	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject: damn that rrfpr works gooooood!
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dukie V6Z24.com 0wnZ me Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 2430 Location: MN 1994 Cavalier Z24 2006 Accord LX	Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:25 pm    Post subject: Hey Kenton, do you have a lightened flywheel or anything like that? I think it would be awesome if it revved up a little faster . Great power though, congrats on all the work. _________________
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