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Putting a 3400 in a first gen
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wadus Gender:Male
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1987 Cavalier Z24
1990 Mustang GT
1987 Cavalier Z24
1999 Grand Cherokee Laredo

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:20 pm    Post subject: Putting a 3400 in a first gen Reply with quote

Ok, I snagged an 87 Z24 with a 5 speed for $350 and it has a bad engine. I got a 3400 out of a 11/2002 (would this be considered a 2003?) Pontiac Montana.

I read the swap thread here and figured I would thow all my questions in this thread as they come up.


First of all, where can I get a 5 speed with AC front mount.
Will the exhaust manifold from the montana work? (I know I will have to get a downpipe fabbed.) But my brother keeps telling me he saw/read somewhere that it needs to come from a car.

Also the 3 wire temp sensor, anyone know where I can get a plug for it? (I'm guessing snip one from a JY car, but what kind of car?)

Puke jug from a 92-94 J (with radiator cap in the jug)
Any info on adapting my EGR? MY engine is an 87 2.8 and the engine is a 2002 Montana.

That's it for now, Im sure I'll have more questions before its all said and done.


Thanks for any help.


Edit to add: I know I will need a beretta/corsica throttle cable, will I also need to get a cruise control cable from the same?
I grabbed the throttle cable bracket from a lumina car with a 3100(guess its the same, or does it have to be a 3400/different car?)
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bondo07 Gender:Male
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1992 Cavalier Z24
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1995 Beretta Z26
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone once said: a 3400 is a 3400 is a 3400. All parts are identical on 3400's to the best of my knowledge anyway. All of these questions have been beaten to death over and over. Spend some time, Do some research, And get started on your project Post pictures as you go along and anyone following along will give you hints and answers.
Don't quote me on this but I do believe you can just take the whole engine harness and ecu outta the montanna. I cant remember.
Here's just about everything you'll need:
http://www.v6z24.com/howto/3400/

Good luck.

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lue22 Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for the mounts http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/3400-3500-mount-3400-mounts-ready-t109634,start,150.html

heres another how to http://www.domesticcrew.com/660/installguide.htm#15

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quantum
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't matter what manifolds you use for the exhaust.. you have to build a new downpipe either way..
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autotech1117 Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! Nice score for $350. Looks relatively rust free, good luck with the swap.
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wadus Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the replies guys.

I'm taking my time and with my work schedule it'll probably take me a while to complete. I think I can get most of the parts locally at a JY or parts store and only be waiting on a mount.

After looking at the mount thread I think he just has auto and non AC mounts. I checked J body performance and it will cost almost $200 for a mount, and I think they only work with dealers. Unless I am doing something wrong.

Any other source for getting a mount? I definately cant make one.
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wadus Gender:Male
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1987 Cavalier Z24
1990 Mustang GT
1987 Cavalier Z24
1999 Grand Cherokee Laredo

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

autotech1117 wrote:
WOW! Nice score for $350. Looks relatively rust free, good luck with the swap.



This isn't the one in my profile, that one is auto and rust free.

The one I just bought has a little rust in the floor, that wouldn't have been there if the PO would've covered up the broken window. I bought it from the original owner, she said it blew a head gasket and they parked it. It has 94 tags on it so it has been sitting for a few years.

I bought it as a donor car for a 5 speed swap and dash swap, but when I got it home I found out it was in remarkably good shape for sitting so long.
I drained the gas and put in some good gas and changed out the crank sensor and it fired right up. I was going to fix the 2.8 but decided to go 3400

I grabbed the 3400 from the Knoxville Pull-A-Part for $160 with everything intact. It had nice clean oil the engine it relatively clean, so hopefully its not blown, lol.
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chronos Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The daveycav90 mounts are very nice and I would highly recommend one. If you get one with AC remember that you will need to grind the mount just a tiny bit and you will need to grind the boss on the oil pan. Easy to do, just make sure you have access to a grinder.

The 3-wire temp sensor connector is the same as the one for the 2.8/3.1 v6 throttle position sensor (TPS). It's a round connector.

For EGR, I believe that you will first have to convert from the vacuum EGR to the digital EGR, and then you can either modify that to bolt to the intake or you can buy an adapter.

Remember that you will need a custom computer chip for this. A few people on this board make them, so maybe put a posting in the buy/sell/trade and see who responds.

I used a Cavalier 2.2 throttle cable, and I'm not sure about the cruise control cable. I do know that the 2.8 cable won't just clip into the bracket, my 3.1 wouldn't and it still isn't hooked up.
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bondo07 Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wadus wrote:
After looking at the mount thread I think he just has auto and non AC mounts. I checked J body performance and it will cost almost $200 for a mount, and I think they only work with dealers. Unless I am doing something wrong.

Any other source for getting a mount? I definately cant make one.


Just private message him. I'm 99% sure it'll work with ac. Most of the ppl with 3400swaps keep the ac.

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wadus Gender:Male
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1987 Cavalier Z24
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1987 Cavalier Z24
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, for EGR should I get a phase 2 EGR and this?

http://wot-tech.com/shop/all/90-95-egr-to-2000-manifold-adapter/prod_75.html




Edit: didnt see the modify part, I'll have to get one from the JY and see what I can do.
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wadus Gender:Male
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1987 Cavalier Z24
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1987 Cavalier Z24
1999 Grand Cherokee Laredo

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronos wrote:
The daveycav90 mounts are very nice and I would highly recommend one. If you get one with AC remember that you will need to grind the mount just a tiny bit and you will need to grind the boss on the oil pan. Easy to do, just make sure you have access to a grinder.

The 3-wire temp sensor connector is the same as the one for the 2.8/3.1 v6 throttle position sensor (TPS). It's a round connector.

For EGR, I believe that you will first have to convert from the vacuum EGR to the digital EGR, and then you can either modify that to bolt to the intake or you can buy an adapter.

Remember that you will need a custom computer chip for this. A few people on this board make them, so maybe put a posting in the buy/sell/trade and see who responds.

I used a Cavalier 2.2 throttle cable, and I'm not sure about the cruise control cable. I do know that the 2.8 cable won't just clip into the bracket, my 3.1 wouldn't and it still isn't hooked up.



Thanks for all the info


I didn't know I could use a cav 2.2 throttle cable, and my cruise definately will not work. Cruise really isnt that big of a deal, just was gonna hook it up since it's there.


Also, didn't think I would need a chip if I am using my injectors and an EGR.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How soon do you need a mount?

I have one that I bent the main plate too far, and plan to cut it apart, to make it fit right that I will be selling at a reduced rate than what I normally charge.

Once this semester of s'kool is done, I'll have evenings back, or at least should have evenings back and be able to provide mounts again. I owe one person a mount anyway.

For best results a tuned chip for your car is needed. The 3400 will run decently off a stock 2.8 or 3.1 ECM, but not as well as it could.

The only adapters that are available for EGR is to use the digital EGR. The vacuum EGR can be used by doing it one of two ways.
One way is to make an adapter that either bolts to the intake, and the EGR to it, or a plate that is welded to the intake. I did the later with my small port 3100 UIM that I installed in my Jimmy, many years ago.
Another way to do it is to use a 2000+ UIM, and bolt the EGR directly to it, laying the EGR down, and the black cap pointed at the firewall. IIRC the bolt holes in the EGR need to be slightly filed open to match the UIM. The 3rd bolt hole can be left or cut off, since it won't attach to anything. Then you may need to extend the fitting from the exhaust manifold for the EGR. When I did this, I made headers for the car, so I was able to put the EGR fitting where it worked with the stock EGR flex tube.

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chronos Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason you need a custom chip is because you are changing either the engine size (and volumetric efficiency), and also the fuel flow rate (if you use the newer injectors and fuel rail). Obviously this is going to result in an incorrect amount of fuel going into the 3400. Either too little using the stock injectors and chip, or too much using the 3400 fuel injectors and stock chip. A custom chip will give you the correct amount of fuel that will really unlock the full potential of your 3400. Also, if you run with too little fuel (lean) at high rpms, you run the risk of causing serious engine damage. For the $150 and 2 minute install, a custom chip is money well spent.

Consider this: I bought my 3400 engine for $700, but my swap cost nearly $3000 in total. Yes, I bought a lot of extras and replaced a lot of old parts along the way, but my point is that there is a lot more to the swap than simply the engine.
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chronos Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can read about my swap here http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/3400-swap-video-uploaded-t114350.html
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wadus Gender:Male
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Six_Shooter wrote:
How soon do you need a mount?


I already PMed Daveycav90, he is gonna make me one in a couple of weeks. Im in no hurry for one right now, prob be a while before I get everything collected and time to do it.


Six_Shooter wrote:
Another way to do it is to use a 2000+ UIM, and bolt the EGR directly to it, laying the EGR down, and the black cap pointed at the firewall. IIRC the bolt holes in the EGR need to be slightly filed open to match the UIM. The 3rd bolt hole can be left or cut off, since it won't attach to anything. Then you may need to extend the fitting from the exhaust manifold for the EGR. When I did this, I made headers for the car, so I was able to put the EGR fitting where it worked with the stock EGR flex tube.


I have a 2002 engine so I guess I can go that route with my EGR?
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