Always Something

butch_n · Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: Always Something

So, as my car is nearing time to put in the new carpet, I get all my stereo gear together for sorting wiring, etc. I set everything out in the floor and hook it all up for a pre-installation test.
Well, what do I find... 2 of my amps are dead! An Alpine 50w x2 blows fuses as soon as power is connected. An Alpine 45w x2 has only the right channel is working! Both of these are old amps I have had for years, but both were working when stored years ago. Probably a Left channel MOSFET on the 45x2, but the 50x2, I haven't clue

Anyway, rather than have them looked at and serviced, I just bought a new Alpine MRP-F300 200W (50w x4). Since the two bad amps were to power my subs and rear speakers, this single 4 channel amp can replace them both. Thankfully at least my old Alpine 30w x2 I am going to use for the front speakers is still working perfectly.

While this was a pisser, I am glad I decided to check everything out in the living room before I hooked it all up in the car.
Better to find out now. Still, I can't help but to feel it is 'always something' with this damn car

Six_Shooter · Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject:

It will be a power supply issue on the amp that is blowing fuses. Best to just replace it, like you have.

I'll make a suggestion about what speakers to connect where...

I will suggest using the 4 channel amp for the subs and front speakers, running the rear speakers off the smaller amp. The reason I suggest this is to get a better front image, providing more power to the front speakers than the rear. The smaller amp on the rear speakers will provide an ambiance effect. For best results the rear speakers should be set to a level, that is just below obviously hearing them, hence providing ambiance, to help make the vehicle sound larger than it is.

butch_n · Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject:

Good suggestion, but I can't do that. My fronts are 4" two way and will be choked of anything below 300Hz. So they are only mid/high range. I'll need the power to my rear 4x10 three way to drive the mid bass the fronts won't have. But the rear speakers are mounted in a stock like configuration, so they are firing upwards. That in itself lowers the effectiveness of the upper end of the range. My fronts are firing upwards too, but they are closer to my ears and of course I will be facing them 99% if the time.
If I was doing a different setup, it would work better.

Six_Shooter · Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:13 pm Post subject:

Trust me.

I've been doing this for a long time. Your 4" will play just as low as 4x10s, since 4x10s really aren't that great at producing what I would call bass or mid-bass. I would cut the 4" off lower than 300 Hz, closer to 150, maybe a tad lower if they will take it, but only auditioning them would determine that. I've had many 3.5" an 4" speakers that played well down to about 100 Hz, with some decent power on them. You have to realize that stronger power amplifiers will have more control of the cone movement, so that will be able to play lower, at high levels, when they have proper power to control cone movement. Just as an example, I had stock 16 year old GM 3.5" speakers in the dash of my 1984 Sunbird hatch back. Since I didn't have any money at the time for anything better. I ran them off two channels of mt Rodek RA 450 (50W/ch), high passed them at about 100 Hz, and that sang strong. Lasted a long time too, I never id blow them or damage them, just sold the car an left them in it.

The orientation of the speaker really has no bearing on their effective frequency range, but if they are facing glass, such as the rear windsheild, that will re-enforce the higher frequencies due to reflection off the glass. That is part of the reason I like to use a 6 db slope low pass on rear speaker (if I use any rear speakers), at somewhere between 1500 and 3000 hz. This again will help with producing a solid front stage.

butch_n · Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject:

My amp came today. Been playing around with it for a couple hours.
The 4x10's are much better on it than to switch them for the 4". The 4x10's have much better mid bass with a richer sound and the power outut of 50w x2 works much better with them. The 4" just don't handle the lower end as well. Not as tight sounding. I played around with the levels and the crossovers, but they just can't match the mid bass of the 4x10's. I tried them with and without the >300Hz choke.
The 4" do sound great as mid range and highs. They are better in that area than the 10x4. They have a crisper cleaner sound and the 30w x2 amp drive them perfectly. The choke is about right. 200Hz would have been okay, (I think). Certainly wouldn't want to take them much lower with 30w. They will be good for imaging off the windscreen.

The new amp drives the 6x9 subwoofer nicely, though I did increase the level on them some. They have a nice tight punch, not a boom. I like that, I never really cared for a boomy rattling bass. I like a hard hitting tight bass and while the 6x9's are a little small, they still produce the tight hit I prefer.

All in all, it is clean, fairly powerful system. Nothing fancy, but sounds great at louder volumes without much distortion. All I was after really. I'm quite pleased.

butch_n · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:03 am Post subject:

Got my stereo install nearly completed yesterday.
The lights on my Clarion EQS746 Equalizer (brand new) quit working. EQ functions perfectly, but the lights died for some reason

Not a big deal, as I thought they were a bit too bright anyway and do not have a dimming feature. Just strange that they would quit working. The unit is brand new and only played about an hour or so in the living room before installing it in the car. No wiring issue, as it only has 12v, Remote and Ground wires to hook up.
Oh well, as long as it works, the dead lights are not enough to send it back over.

Systems sounds really nice in the car. Good tight bass, fantastic highs, great imaging from the little 4" front speakers, crystal clear and powerful enough for me.
I am quite pleased considering the rather low cost for it (I did already have the 30w x 2 amp for the fronts, 6x9 subs and 4x10 3way rear speakers). The tuner is a low end Alpine, but does everything I need one to do, so no need to spend on one with more features I wouldn't be using.
The 50w x4 Alpine amp that drives the 4x10 3ways and 6x9 subs is a very nice amp for the money.
The EQ is a great addition, even if the lights did quit. Allows for lots of tuning options and really brings out the best of the system.
Those little Alpine 4" 2ways really sound crisp, clean and clear, after choking off the lower end with 300Hz FMOD filters.

I had to take out the little vents from the front sides of the console and mounted a plate in there to mount the front amp to. I still used the vent pipes that ran down to the vents, so I still get air blowing down towards feet and legs. Worked out well and kept everything out of sight, without needing to mount the amp under a seat (I never liked that idea and will always find some way around doing that). I would have mounted it in the trunk along with the rear amp, but only had two RCA cables long enough for that. Rather than buy another, I decided to mount the front amp in the console.

I'll get some pictures later today. I do still have to screw the front amp to the mounting plate, since the glue wasn't completely cured yesterday. Other than that and putting the top of the console and bezel/ashtray on, I'm done

tricky01 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:35 am Post subject:

Sounds like you are just about done. I was thinking of a ten inch sub but too save space I may try some 6x9 subs. Useing the blockers on the fronts do they require to be close to the speaker? I need to choke my fronts but if I can will do close to the amp in trunk where wire is accessible.

butch_n · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:44 am Post subject:

Here are the filters I used. They plug into the RCA cable leading into the amp.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-279
They are directional, so they must be male end plugged into (or pointing towards) the Amp. If you need to place them at the head unit, you would need to use a Male/Male adapter plugged into the head unit and the FMOD plugged into that adapter. Then another adapter that is Female/Female to go from the FMOD to the RCA cable (or an RCA cable that is Female on one end and Male on the other).
I had room to place mine on the Amp, so didn't have use any adapters.
You can see them in the picture. Sorry it isn't clear, hard to hold the camera still under the dash like that.
Anyway, they are simple and work fine if your amp doesn't have a crossover built in (my 30w x2 doesn't have).

tricky01 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject:

Thanks, and looks great. If I happen to see a heater knob with the silver button will send to you.

Think I am gonna go with 1 10in sub.

butch_n · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the offer on the knob.
No big deal though. I will probably get out to some local yard nearer to springtime. I have a few items I want to find. Just small things, like that knob. I want to add a few things too, Trunk release, underhood and trunk lights, a overhead dome/map light, etc. I just haven't been out looking, yet.

About you using 10" woofers, I think I could have used them just like the 6x9's. I believe 10's, in a similar enclosure would have fit in there nicer than the 6x9 boxes do. They would have better filled the area. I may switch them to 10's, at some point. 6x9, thump nice and tight though. Feel it in your chest, but doen't rattle the car

. So, I really kinda doubt I will change them anytime soon. Had I not already had the 6x9's, I likely would have used 10's.

tricky01 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject:

I am thinking of going with 1 JL Audio 10in. Maybe an old W-3 version wit a decent amp. I do howevre have an old, real old Kenwood 923 amp I had since 2000 and think it was 6 yrs old when I got it but may run it. It's just my DD/ hobbie car.

butch_n · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject:

tricky01 · Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject:

Man I bet the Z will look good. Everyone say's that after I paint it I am gonna pamper it and find another DD, but oh no don't care how good she looks it is my work car til they start passing out A8's (AUDI), LOL. But glad the lights came back on your eq. After I get windows tinted or dule's put on then im gonna redo music. As far as the RCA cables I grabed 2 set's out of some cars and the power wire from some with fuse blocks. Are the seats gonna be leather?

butch_n · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:30 am Post subject:

tricky01 · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:34 am Post subject:

I have to admit that was very creative and looks damn nice. How about the headliner? That would look good with that fabric.

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