What are the symptoms of bad timing?

93sunbirdgt

Wondering if perhaps my timing is out a little on my 3.1
It can be a real b*tch to start.
I hop in, turn the key and I get one revolution of the starter. Almost sounds like the batterys dead. Turn the key again and I get the rrrrr, rrrr, rrrr, and she fires up
Bouncing rpms, and the occasional miss
Car seems to have lots of power, but after hard driving if I slow down to quick she wants to stall.
Ideas?

Just passed safety yesterday, so now its now on the road for the first time in 4 years. I want to drive it, but am worried about doing damage or breaking down in heavy traffic

megatrends · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject:

You should get a timing light and check your drive pulley. I don't have one and have been meaning to get one.

It may tell you if your timing chain is not what it should be as well as just checking it. It may just be off and needs to be adjusted.

I'm tracking down a little misfire 'puff" once in a while myself especially when the car is dead cold and considering my previous CPS and ICM troubles last year think it is still there. I've replaced 2 CPS and 2 ICM which repaired it each time .... for a little while. Starting to think I have a short in the harness somewhere.

The car runs fine, it just has a "timing issue" like you stated.

I should check my timing with a timing light is my point. I might even have a cylinder compression issue so I need a tester gauge for that also.

A cylinder with bad compression from a bad piston ring or something can cause timing issues and misfires. I do have a little puff of blue smoke on dead cold start up and think oil is dripping into the cylinder from a bad seal where the valve seats. I mean I'm not pushing blues or anything, it has to sit over night, doesn't do it if I park it during the day and start it. looks like normal exhaust.

This stuff sucks to track down it really does especially if you don't have the proper tools. ..... which I don't.

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:06 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info, but how do you adjust the timing on these cars?
I cant imagine trying to get the timing cover off with the motor in the car.

Having another issue, prob unrelated or nothing at all.
The car has a hypertech chip in it, so it kind of overcools. The thermo opens as soon as theres heat. The gauge never even reaches 1/4. But Ive noticed the plenum and tb get extremely hot, even after a short drive. So hot I cant even touch it. Dont remember if it was like this b4 or not

megatrends · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject:

SuperDave · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:46 pm Post subject:

2 things here,

1. a timing light will be useless, the stock dampener does not have a timing mark, nor is there a timing tab affixed to the front of the engine.

2. You cannot set the spark timing on these engines, it's triggered off of the 7x ring on the crankshaft, fed to the ignition module where it's skewed by signals from the ECM for advance/retard when running.

Any trouble codes?

megatrends · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:10 am Post subject:

bondo07 · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:23 am Post subject:

When was your last major tuneup like fuel filter, plugs and wires, air filter?
Any one of these can cause a miss. If your timing chain skipped, it'll be missing steadily, not just here and there or after a long drive. I just did the timing chain on my beretta z25 with the 3100. Almost the same.

You can do it with the motor in the car no problem, but get the oil pan supported by a block of wood and a jack and you'll have to take off the front motor mount and passenger side wheel. It's easiest to put the whole front of the car on jackstands first.

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject:

No codes at all.
Everything was just replaced after the motor swap. Plugs, wires, coil packs, belt, fuel filter, ICM, TPS,tb were replaced with spares
I need this car to be more dependable asap as I will be needing to drive it back and forth to work.

Maybe this will help
I just took it down the road to the store......
Turned the key and she started, idled high, put it in drive, bogged almost to a stall, drove down the street, stopped at a light had to keep my foot on the gas to stop it from stalling.
RPMS bouncing, battery light moving, idling up and down. Got to the store, shut it off.
Started it up to leave, started but bogged down again but stayed running. drove home, put it in reverse to back into my drive, stalled, started right back up, parked.
Got out and pooped the hood, top of motor, again, very hot, pulled the dip stick, also very hot.
Any ideas?

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:41 pm Post subject:

anybody

bondo07 · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject:

Ok so it sounds like its going into limp mode. changed your knock sensor? Was your tps new or a used spare? Check again for vacuum leaks. its possible its a faulty ecu but thats a longshot. have you done a compressio test on the new motor?

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject:

looking to get my hands on a tester asap
As for vacuum, everything seems fine though maybe I hooked up something wrong under the plenum.
Both the tps and knock sensor were swapped over from the other motor.
If it was a bad ecu the car would run alot worse or not at all wouldnt it?

megatrends · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject:

Wouldn't have anything to do with cranking difficulty but maybe you have two problems not helping each other?

I am trying to think about times I had bogging and dying and had to keep the motor going with the throttle pedal at red lights and my issue was the IAC valve both times that happened. I have an automatic so I had to put it in neutral and keep the gas pedal on a bit and then shift into D and go.

One IAC died of old age and one I killed with cleaner I accidentally got into the valve motor and it froze where it was.

Did you check your IAC? You should be able to manually move the pintle with your thumb while holding it tightly in your clenched fist.

Also the recommended measure is 1-1/8" from the base when you are at idle or the car is off. You could turn your car off and then take the IAC out and measure just to see if it is returning to where it should be when idling like say at a red light or whatever.

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:

yup I destroyed the one on the motor the same way, with cleaner, replaced it with the spare I had and the pintle is fine.

Today I drove it to work, ran lopey all the way there, had to brake/gas at lights. Once I got to work I turned around in a driveway and boom it stalled. Wouldnt start, like the battery was dead. My father boosted me and it started right up and ran the same on the way home

bondo07 · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject:

Hmm... plugged cat maybe? Could be choking it.

93sunbirdgt · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:57 am Post subject:

no cat, straight piped

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