[cyrax]

First of all sry if my questions sound dumb but i'm not a mechanic i am learning as i go on my own. I really like the 2.8s i am thinking of rebuilding my motor and adding different parts and i need some opinions. As far as i know my whole motor is stock, and i am wondering if 3.0L pistons bored .040 would fit and if they do how much more power you think i will get with the extra gas capacity and is it worth $40 ?? And would it be worth putting a cam with specs. intake .394 lift, 276 duration exhaust .410 lift, 293 duration for $60 ?? How much better do you think those 2 pieces would make my 2.8 ?? thx for help

Ray

 

[z_two_4]

Don't bore it out unless it needs it. for the cam go with a crane h-260 it will be your best bang for the buck!

 

[onefastwagon]

Yea, dont bore unless the engine absolutly needs it.

260H is a nice cam, they have a 280 as well, but that might be too much depending on what your using the car for.

One of the swaps that gets great reviews is to put a 3.1 or 3.4 liter top end on your block. (Upper and lower intake plus throttle body.)

The more air you can flow, the more power your going to make. Also, pay attention to your choices for exhaust. Its real easy to change the whole system with the engine out of the car. The smallest diameter I'd go with is 2.25, 2.50 is ideal..

If you have no emissions where you live, hollow the cat. That way it LOOKS like its there, but doesn't do anything. Go with a free flowing muffler. Dynomax ultra flo is the best bang for the buck. (Cost VS horsepower VS sound control.)

Right now I have NO muffler on my car. Just a straight 2.25 pipe from the hollow cat right to the dual tip made by Monza. (Has tiny glass pack mufflers in the tip)

Sounded GREAT when it was first done, but now that the packing has settled its getting too loud.

Dave T. - 1987 Cavalier RS/SS Wagon - 387,000 mi - Long Island, NY
"Insert tag line here"

 

[Six_Shooter]

Do I have to start on this thread to about how wrong removing or hollowing the cat is, leave it alone or replace it with a better flowing one, don't just hollow it out and call it good, since it's not, read the thread entitled "Big performance problems", and you will see why.

 

[cyrax]

My 88 z24 don't have a cat, its on a airmass exhaust system w/7" tip and glass-pack. But I'm still not sure what i should do with the car yet, if i should keep the 2.8 or since i hear the 3.4 is same size buy 1 of them and start from their. I beat a Buick skylark with a 3.1L and its motor is bout in same mileage and stock condition, and I'm not sure if i should change the motor. I had a 3.8 in a Pontiac and i felt the 2.8 would beat it 2, thats why i need some opinons. I would like to meet some people with the different size motors so i could make a decision from their, i live an hour from metropolis ( or summin like that) illinois, so if any 1 don't care if I drop by for a bit to check out your z24 drop me a line. thx

Ray

 

[jakerooni]

you have a 7" tip on your exhaust???

 

[stu71584]

thats gotta be a typo

 

[Six_Shooter]

Why do people think that the catalytic converter is what is keeping them in the 16s? :roll:

 

[cyrax]

thats gotta be a typo

stu7158 is right i messed up I think its at least 5 " tip but i was told it was 7" from where i bought it and nvr bothered to mesure it.

 

[cyrax]

Why do people think that the catalytic converter is what is keeping them in the 16s? :roll:

I dunno why they think it, but I don't blame them for taking it off i have heard of 3 cars catching on fire here cause the catalytic converter was clogged up. I even saw my bosses mustang blow the whole exhaust off of his car cause the cats screen was clogged.

 

[nemesis25]

Why do people think that the catalytic converter is what is keeping them in the 16s? :roll:

Less "back pressure" :lol: :lol: jk

 

[Six_Shooter]

Why do people think that the catalytic converter is what is keeping them in the 16s? :roll:

I dunno why they think it, but I don't blame them for taking it off i have heard of 3 cars catching on fire here cause the catalytic converter was clogged up. I even saw my bosses mustang blow the whole exhaust off of his car cause the cats screen was clogged.

Uh huh, so you think that because the cat was hot, it was to blame for the fire(s)? How missinformed are you? VERY.

There is only one reason why a cat could get that hot, yes you said it, clogged, but how do they get clogged? A poorly maintained, poorly tuned car that is used ONLY for short trips, where the car was not able to reach full temp, and the cat also would not get up to operating temp, this is what kills them, not that the cat is there, but poor usage and tune of the vehicle.

Don't blame the cat, blame the owner or person in charge of maintaining the vehicle.

 

[cyrax]

Why do people think that the catalytic converter is what is keeping them in the 16s? :roll:

I dunno why they think it, but I don't blame them for taking it off i have heard of 3 cars catching on fire here cause the catalytic converter was clogged up. I even saw my bosses mustang blow the whole exhaust off of his car cause the cats screen was clogged.

Uh huh, so you think that because the cat was hot, it was to blame for the fire(s)? How missinformed are you? VERY.

There is only one reason why a cat could get that hot, yes you said it, clogged, but how do they get clogged? A poorly maintained, poorly tuned car that is used ONLY for short trips, where the car was not able to reach full temp, and the cat also would not get up to operating temp, this is what kills them, not that the cat is there, but poor usage and tune of the vehicle.

Don't blame the cat, blame the owner or person in charge of maintaining the vehicle.

But I still havent understood why it blew orange smoke everywhere when nothing on the car was orange..

 

[stu71584]

thats gotta be a typo

stu7158 is right i messed up I think its at least 5 " tip but i was told it was 7" from where i bought it and nvr bothered to mesure it.

haha 5" is still pretty big bro

 

[n3x]

i hate driving behind people without a cat... :guns:

 

[onefastwagon]

Ok, your right about the cat. But when they DO clog or begin to restrict they cause more problems than they're worth.

The pressure build up can blow exhaust gaskets or cause premature failure. Not to mention what kind of performance they rob when they begin to collapse inside or clog.

And rather than shell out 300 bucks for a new one, I'd rather leave it hollow. (It hollowed itself after the insides broke up and flew down the exhaust pipe. The pieces clogged up the muffler and rattled like beans in a can.) Thanks, but no thanks.

My car is registered in North Carolina and isn't required to pass an emissions test. (Thankfully)

YES, a properly working cat doesn't cause alot of restriction, but one with even minor problems is robbing you of power and building excessive back pressure. If your car sounds like a spray can going down the road, you probably have too much back pressure.

If you open the hood at night and your manifolds are glowing, you have too much back pressure or restriction.

Cars that are making 250+ HP with the cat on don't have issues.. Cars making a paulty 130+ need every single advantage they can get through any means necessary.

If you want emissions and like clean running cars.. Go electric.

Personally, I think EVERYONE should have an electric car for short haul trips. If you commute less than 50 miles to work, then an electric car is for you. Plug it in when you arrive, its charged and ready to go by the time you leave.

I haven't kept up with the technology, but now I hear there are electric motorcycles too ! That'd be pretty wild since weight to power ratios are extremely important in electric vehicles..

Anyway, thats my take on things.

Dave T. - 1987 Cavalier, RS/SS Wagon - 3xx,xxx miles - Long Island, NY
"lost count"

 

[patrick]

300 bucks for a cat!!!!! dam i can get a hi flow for 100 bucks cnd yer getten jyped

 

[Six_Shooter]

I'm going to pick this post apart:

Ok, your right about the cat. But when they DO clog or begin to restrict they cause more problems than they're worth.

Hmm, if a cat is getting clogged, there are reasons for this, such as an imporperly tuned engine, worn out or damaged engine parts. The other reason that catalytic converters are known to be "troublesome" is because for the cat to be effective, it has to warm up, which takes time, usually 3 to 5 minutes on an average car, before this point the cat is not effective, to get to my point, I bet in all cases where the cat has failed prematurley, the car is usually used for short trips, such as to the corner store and back, to work which is only a few minutes down the road, etc. This does not allow the cat to warm up and be effective

The pressure build up can blow exhaust gaskets or cause premature failure. Not to mention what kind of performance they rob when they begin to collapse inside or clog.

Again, this is ONLY from a cat that IS bad, not a properly functioning cat, see my answer above as well.

And rather than shell out 300 bucks for a new one, I'd rather leave it hollow. (It hollowed itself after the insides broke up and flew down the exhaust pipe. The pieces clogged up the muffler and rattled like beans in a can.) Thanks, but no thanks.

You're getting ripped, you can get an aftermarket higher flowing cat for between $100 to $200, again, the problems you have experianced are from a cat that is bad, again, see my first answer.

My car is registered in North Carolina and isn't required to pass an emissions test. (Thankfully)

The issue here is not wether the car in question needs to pass an emissions test, but what can be done for the environment, and the future well being of you, me and our families and friends.

YES, a properly working cat doesn't cause alot of restriction, but one with even minor problems is robbing you of power and building excessive back pressure. If your car sounds like a spray can going down the road, you probably have too much back pressure.

If the cat is rattling that is not a minor problem, the cat is beyond it's useful life and should be replaced, even a minor "clogging" of the cat you will never notice, the open area in a cat exceeds the area in which the pipe entering and leaving it has.

If you open the hood at night and your manifolds are glowing, you have too much back pressure or restriction.

There are other reasons as well, like a fuel delivery problem (lean), vaccum leak, improper spark timing (too adavanced), etc, this is not soley a problem with a catalytic converter.

Cars that are making 250+ HP with the cat on don't have issues.. Cars making a paulty 130+ need every single advantage they can get through any means necessary.

This makes no sense whatsoever, if an engine that is making 250+ horsepower has no problem with utilizing a cat converter, why would you possibly think the reason the other engine in question, making 130 HP is being restricted by the cat, here is the reason: It's NOT. Design, tuning, limitations by other mechanical parts, like the heads, intake, air filter and/or box are the reasons why.

If you want emissions and like clean running cars.. Go electric.

I agree, I have been considerig this, but it is not feasable at this time.

Personally, I think EVERYONE should have an electric car for short haul trips. If you commute less than 50 miles to work, then an electric car is for you. Plug it in when you arrive, its charged and ready to go by the time you leave.

This is a little too idealistic, that statement assumes, that the gerneration of electricity is free of polutants, which it is not, hydro electric isn't bad, but still adds polution to the lakes and rivers in which the water flows from and to, Nuclear, well there is waste from that, which will not break down for millions of years. Also if everyone replaced thier short commute gas or diesel vehicles with electric, the demand for power generation would skyrocket, and make more generations plants to be built further effecting the environment, also the cabling that would be needed to keep up with the new demand would make our cities and towns an eyesore, due to the extra billions of miles of new cabling that would be needed, even if super condutors were used, which if they were adds a whole new problem into the mix.

I haven't kept up with the technology, but now I hear there are electric motorcycles too ! That'd be pretty wild since weight to power ratios are extremely important in electric vehicles..

Yep, anything could have an electric motor to povide motion.

Anyway, thats my take on things.

Dave T. - 1987 Cavalier, RS/SS Wagon - 3xx,xxx miles - Long Island, NY
"lost count"

 

[nemesis25]

Raven, do you really believe that the environment can be saved? And further more , that a catalytic converter will save the planet? The earth is over populated, and is continuing to be. All of technology today that we have grown accustom to, creates pollution in their very production, every industrial plant that makes all the things that we use, creates a huge amount of the pollution that is killing, or rather HAS killed the planet earth.
A cars exhaust creates less than 8% of the ozone killing toxins that are present today. As of the 1970's, there was enough toxins in the atmosphere to destroy the ozone layer 7 times over, that was over 30 years ago.
By human nature we destroy all that we touch, it is irreversible.
I laugh to see our government placing the blame on cars, like they are the problem, and of course like good sheep, we all just believe them and go on thinking that highly restrictive emission control devises, that are problematic, and power robing to say the lest, are some how a good thing and will save the world and undo century's of neglect.

The planet is dead, it just doesn't know it yet.Nothing can save it now, but by all means, if it makes you feel better to stick your head in the sand and pretend it is not happening, all the power to you.

 

[Six_Shooter]

Raven, do you really believe that the environment can be saved? And further more , that a catalytic converter will save the planet? The earth is over populated, and is continuing to be. All of technology today that we have grown accustom to, creates pollution in their very production, every industrial plant that makes all the things that we use, creates a huge amount of the pollution that is killing, or rather HAS killed the planet earth.
A cars exhaust creates less than 8% of the ozone killing toxins that are present today. As of the 1970's, there was enough toxins in the atmosphere to destroy the ozone layer 7 times over, that was over 30 years ago.
By human nature we destroy all that we touch, it is irreversible.
I laugh to see our government placing the blame on cars, like they are the problem, and of course like good sheep, we all just believe them and go on thinking that highly restrictive emission control devises, that are problematic, and power robing to say the lest, are some how a good thing and will save the world and undo century's of neglect.

The planet is dead, it just doesn't know it yet.Nothing can save it now, but by all means, if it makes you feel better to stick your head in the sand and pretend it is not happening, all the power to you.

No, you are obvioulsy not reading my posts, or at least not understanding them....

I do know there are lots of pollutants already in our atmoshere, but to say "It's already too much, who gives a shit? Let's just add more" IS the problem. If we can reduce the polutants that are being added, then the earth will last that much longer, Actually vehicles add quite a bit more than 8% to the problem.

Emissions controls on vehicles DO NOT take away any power from an engine, once you realize that any electronically controlled (and some passive devises) turn off at WOT, then you will realize that the same power that would have been there without the devices is still there with them attached.

To say "give up" is not a good stand point, nor will it ever be, things can be reduced and in time reversed.

You are also trying to "pass blame" with your reference to "other plants that pollute" please start taking responsibility and helping to reduce or repair the problem instead of adding to it.

I don't see the problem in spending a $100 or so to replace a device on your car, that will not hurt performance, but actually help with efficiancy and the environment. But instead you will spend thousands on making it polute more without any thought to help make it run better or last longer. But forbid that your alternator goes, you'll somewhat gladly spend a couple hundred to replace that, or your tires are getting worn, hmm a few hundred there, for either straight replacements or an upgrade, why do you refuse to do the same for the emissions controls, it's because you can't see the problem it creates, it comes out the tail pipe behind you, out of sight, out of mind, right? :roll: