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So the girlfriends car got stripped down to it's bare undies ;) and we found lots of rust and holes....

Since it needs a new firewall anyways..and wiper duct, and sunroof trim, i figured, why not try to find real floor pans.

anybody got ideas where to get them in canada" land of slush and salt and rust!!!!" :p
 

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capitalsins said:
So the girlfriends car got stripped down to it's bare undies ;) and we found lots of rust and holes....

Since it needs a new firewall anyways..and wiper duct, and sunroof trim, i figured, why not try to find real floor pans.

anybody got ideas where to get them in canada" land of slush and salt and rust!!!!" :p
doesn't exist.

buy some sheet metal and some shears and go to town. then weld'em up.
 

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Go to the local salvage yard( steel scrap that is), and ask them if you can go look for scrap steel for your project. If they let you in at all its way cheaper just watch where you are walking and digging you don't get sliced and diced. Buy the biggest pieces you can find / carry and cut them out of that. Pretty cheap compared to new steel and just as good.
All you do is clean it up with a 4 inch or so grinder and stainless wheel brush cut it way oversize and rough form it. Back in the dark ages I used to fix all sorts of cars in Germany where they rust out and the german law made them scrap them. They would pass US mil inspection though and nice cars were dirt cheap because of that. Just clean it up good and paint it with a brush using el cheapo RUSTOLIUM RUSTY METAL PRIMER. 2 coats then do the same with the surrounding area after cutting out the rusty sections. Get that as clean as you can and then paint both with some heavy coats of black paint whatever steel type you choose. Rustolium is about as good as any. When dry its time to plaster it all in undercoating. Lay it on thick as hell. Let it dry then put some more on both surfaces again. Take the plate all gooey and press it in place then start drilling and pop riveting USING LARGE HEAD STEEL RIVETS. Just do that every 4 inches or so and get all the corners well. Washers on the bottom are nice if you have help around but not needed.
Afterwards you can buck em flatter using a dolly if you want to and then prime and paint the rivet heads using spray paint. Finally undercoat the whole area again and you be done. Not a professional fitted resto job but it will surely outlast the car by a long ways and it doesn't require any welding skills. Welding burns everything to boot and is a major PITA with the thin sheet metal so rivets are actually as good and maby better.
The beauty of working the floorboards is that they are out of sight so you might as well take advantage of that and keep it simple. You will find it is a lot cheaper and easier than welding in new pans which you can't realistically do without a gas mig and .023 wire or better a TIG setup. Keep it simple wherever you can. No matter what you do the rustmonster is gonna win someday, count on it. :D
 

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ummm poprivits? :nono: :!: :eek: I don't know about the U.S but here in Canada it's not legal to use them for a good reason they won't hold especially in a collision!! You can not and will not be able to get you'r car saftyed! So you have a couple choices go to a J-yard find a good floor, cut it out and weld it into yours fab up some new pans useing electropplated galvinized sheet metal 18-20 gauge works really good and it's a bit thicker than factory always weld everything in you don't need to be good to weld in a floor pan but you will be by the time you'r done, or send the car for scrap and get another. you can use some self tapping shetmetal screws to hold the pieces togather while you weld it's always easier to weld a nice n tight seam! No offence drizler but anyone that would use poprivits especially in a structural part of a unibody car deserves any and all problems that WILL follow ex: in a accident the forces can easily seperate the rivits letting all that sharp metal go where ever it want's to as well as you'r car folding up like an accordian or random pieces falling off while your driving and causeing serious injury or death to other motorists and/or pedestrians!
THIS IS WHY IT IS (ILLEGAL) TO USE OR SAFTY A CAR IN CANADA THAT HAS BODY PIECES POP RIVETED ON AND IN MY OPINION SHOULD BE ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE!! :nono: BTW Gas mig is the easiest way, but you can use flux core wire as well and .023 wire is easiest but anything between that and .030 will work just fine practice on a few scrap pieces to get you'r welder set up (should sound like backon frying in a pan when set corectly and welds should be slightly convex in apearance i use .025-.035 wire and adjust the welder accordingly to wire size and thickness of metal ) :D
when everything is securly welded in place use some zink oxide primer seam sealer inside and out, then lots of paint and finally undercoating proform makes an undercoating that works extremly well and smells kinda like bubble gum !!! good luck with your restoration :wink:
 

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While this isn't likely proper in the litigation department I can't see any difference between welded and a good riveted job. Now if the entire floor pan is gone thats another story maby but without going to a hell of a lot of trouble and expense what you end up with is about the same. Simple holes in the floor are just that . Of course if you hit something hard enough its not going to make much difference anyways as these cars are darned lightly built to begin with. If you want strong with rivets then get some cherry max aircraft or better yet and cheaper some standard aircraft rivets and buck those in by hand peen em flat and bury them in enough undercoating so you can't see em. Compare that to a mig weld and see which is stronger.
If you are taking your car to one of those Mr Goodwrench types for inspection who goes hunting for issues to line his pockets then you need to find a good old boy like I use. Of course your lawyer may advise otherwise and your mileage may vary. On the other hand if you aren't fitted just perfect and not well skilled with a mig you will end up with more of a hole than you began with. You could do it with an arc welder but I bet you really don't want to go there.
 

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drizler said:
While this isn't likely proper in the litigation department I can't see any difference between welded and a good riveted job. Now if the entire floor pan is gone thats another story maby but without going to a hell of a lot of trouble and expense what you end up with is about the same. Simple holes in the floor are just that . Of course if you hit something hard enough its not going to make much difference anyways as these cars are darned lightly built to begin with. If you want strong with rivets then get some cherry max aircraft or better yet and cheaper some standard aircraft rivets and buck those in by hand peen em flat and bury them in enough undercoating so you can't see em. Compare that to a mig weld and see which is stronger.
If you are taking your car to one of those Mr Goodwrench types for inspection who goes hunting for issues to line his pockets then you need to find a good old boy like I use. Of course your lawyer may advise otherwise and your mileage may vary. On the other hand if you aren't fitted just perfect and not well skilled with a mig you will end up with more of a hole than you began with. You could do it with an arc welder but I bet you really don't want to go there.
:eek:

wow...so "rivets are as strong as welds"..... dude you need to go to school and learn something.
 

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barrok69 said:
drizler said:
While this isn't likely proper in the litigation department I can't see any difference between welded and a good riveted job. Now if the entire floor pan is gone thats another story maby but without going to a hell of a lot of trouble and expense what you end up with is about the same. Simple holes in the floor are just that . Of course if you hit something hard enough its not going to make much difference anyways as these cars are darned lightly built to begin with. If you want strong with rivets then get some cherry max aircraft or better yet and cheaper some standard aircraft rivets and buck those in by hand peen em flat and bury them in enough undercoating so you can't see em. Compare that to a mig weld and see which is stronger.
If you are taking your car to one of those Mr Goodwrench types for inspection who goes hunting for issues to line his pockets then you need to find a good old boy like I use. Of course your lawyer may advise otherwise and your mileage may vary. On the other hand if you aren't fitted just perfect and not well skilled with a mig you will end up with more of a hole than you began with. You could do it with an arc welder but I bet you really don't want to go there.
:eek:

wow...so "rivets are as strong as welds"..... dude you need to go to school and learn something.
exactly my point and you would have to be retarded to use a stick welder and my other point is IT'S DANGEROUS AS WELL AS ILLEGAL TO USE ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM OF RIVIT TO ATTACH NEW BODY METAL TO A CAR!! I wasn't being insulting before but it's IDOITS like you drizler that cause serious injuries or death because of poor workmanship and should be in prison!!! Why the hell do you think that they're welded togather from the factory and not riveted! As well any moron that would pass a safty inspection on a car with rivits should have their licence revoked and thrown in prison as well and if you cant weld junk it or get it done professionally!!!! I have seen first hand what happens when "poop" rivits let go in a collision or just driving down the highway and it's not at all funny!!!! Oh and you'd be surprised what a J-body or any other similar vehicale can withstand if in good condition or repaired PROPERLY!! So as barrok69 said "go to school and get an education" and don't try to argue you'r bullshit with trained professionals!!!!

edit: If you think a rivit job is just as strong as welds try this! Rivit two pieces of sheet metal togather and use a clamp and a hydraulic cylinder to pull it apart guaranteed no matter what size shape or brand of rivit it will pull apart very easily!! Next weld two pieces of metal togather and do the same you will see that it takes alot more force to pull them apart if the clamps don't fail before this happens!
 

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hpjunkie said:
barrok69 said:
drizler said:
While this isn't likely proper in the litigation department I can't see any difference between welded and a good riveted job. Now if the entire floor pan is gone thats another story maby but without going to a hell of a lot of trouble and expense what you end up with is about the same. Simple holes in the floor are just that . Of course if you hit something hard enough its not going to make much difference anyways as these cars are darned lightly built to begin with. If you want strong with rivets then get some cherry max aircraft or better yet and cheaper some standard aircraft rivets and buck those in by hand peen em flat and bury them in enough undercoating so you can't see em. Compare that to a mig weld and see which is stronger.
If you are taking your car to one of those Mr Goodwrench types for inspection who goes hunting for issues to line his pockets then you need to find a good old boy like I use. Of course your lawyer may advise otherwise and your mileage may vary. On the other hand if you aren't fitted just perfect and not well skilled with a mig you will end up with more of a hole than you began with. You could do it with an arc welder but I bet you really don't want to go there.
:eek:

wow...so "rivets are as strong as welds"..... dude you need to go to school and learn something.
exactly my point and you would have to be retarded to use a stick welder and my other point is IT'S DANGEROUS AS WELL AS ILLEGAL TO USE ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM OF RIVIT TO ATTACH NEW BODY METAL TO A CAR!! I wasn't being insulting before but it's IDOITS like you drizler that cause serious injuries or death because of poor workmanship and should be in prison!!! Why the hell do you think that they're welded togather from the factory and not riveted! As well any moron that would pass a safty inspection on a car with rivits should have their licence revoked and thrown in prison as well and if you cant weld junk it or get it done professionally!!!! I have seen first hand what happens when "poop" rivits let go in a collision or just driving down the highway and it's not at all funny!!!! Oh and you'd be surprised what a J-body or any other similar vehicale can withstand if in good condition or repaired PROPERLY!! So as barrok69 said "go to school and get an education" and don't try to argue you'r bullshit with trained professionals!!!!

edit: If you think a rivit job is just as strong as welds try this! Rivit two pieces of sheet metal togather and use a clamp and a hydraulic cylinder to pull it apart guaranteed no matter what size shape or brand of rivit it will pull apart very easily!! Next weld two pieces of metal togather and do the same you will see that it takes alot more force to pull them apart if the clamps don't fail before this happens!
Thats too funny because I have safetyed 4 cars in the past year, everyone the floor pans and rocker panels were made out of thin ALUMINUM and pop riveted and never hidden by undercoating or bondo, They were all within plain view. They actually complemented me on how many rivets i used (1 every 1/4 inch). and this was done by a reputable shop (actually a gm DEALERSHIP) who goes over the car with a fine tooth comb. and also have NEVER EVER had a pop rivet let go. EVER.
 

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89-zed-two-four said:
hpjunkie said:
barrok69 said:
drizler said:
While this isn't likely proper in the litigation department I can't see any difference between welded and a good riveted job. Now if the entire floor pan is gone thats another story maby but without going to a hell of a lot of trouble and expense what you end up with is about the same. Simple holes in the floor are just that . Of course if you hit something hard enough its not going to make much difference anyways as these cars are darned lightly built to begin with. If you want strong with rivets then get some cherry max aircraft or better yet and cheaper some standard aircraft rivets and buck those in by hand peen em flat and bury them in enough undercoating so you can't see em. Compare that to a mig weld and see which is stronger.
If you are taking your car to one of those Mr Goodwrench types for inspection who goes hunting for issues to line his pockets then you need to find a good old boy like I use. Of course your lawyer may advise otherwise and your mileage may vary. On the other hand if you aren't fitted just perfect and not well skilled with a mig you will end up with more of a hole than you began with. You could do it with an arc welder but I bet you really don't want to go there.
:eek:

wow...so "rivets are as strong as welds"..... dude you need to go to school and learn something.
exactly my point and you would have to be retarded to use a stick welder and my other point is IT'S DANGEROUS AS WELL AS ILLEGAL TO USE ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM OF RIVIT TO ATTACH NEW BODY METAL TO A CAR!! I wasn't being insulting before but it's IDOITS like you drizler that cause serious injuries or death because of poor workmanship and should be in prison!!! Why the hell do you think that they're welded togather from the factory and not riveted! As well any moron that would pass a safty inspection on a car with rivits should have their licence revoked and thrown in prison as well and if you cant weld junk it or get it done professionally!!!! I have seen first hand what happens when "poop" rivits let go in a collision or just driving down the highway and it's not at all funny!!!! Oh and you'd be surprised what a J-body or any other similar vehicale can withstand if in good condition or repaired PROPERLY!! So as barrok69 said "go to school and get an education" and don't try to argue you'r bullshit with trained professionals!!!!

edit: If you think a rivit job is just as strong as welds try this! Rivit two pieces of sheet metal togather and use a clamp and a hydraulic cylinder to pull it apart guaranteed no matter what size shape or brand of rivit it will pull apart very easily!! Next weld two pieces of metal togather and do the same you will see that it takes alot more force to pull them apart if the clamps don't fail before this happens!
Thats too funny because I have safetyed 4 cars in the past year, everyone the floor pans and rocker panels were made out of thin ALUMINUM and pop riveted and never hidden by undercoating or bondo, They were all within plain view. They actually complemented me on how many rivets i used (1 every 1/4 inch). and this was done by a reputable shop (actually a gm DEALERSHIP) who goes over the car with a fine tooth comb. and also have NEVER EVER had a pop rivet let go. EVER.
I have also done this on quite a few cars for friends whom were getting a safety done on their cars or trucks and have never ONCE been told that they HAVE to be welded. They RECOMMENDED welding them. But have never not safetyed a car with riveted floor pans, cab corners, or patches on rockers or fenders/quarter panels.
 

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ya rivets are fine to use...BUT YOU HAVE TO WELD STILL AND GRIND THE RIVETS OUT. im a journey man in autobody. i know my structural just as good as anyone else with a journeyman status. and also using flux core is illegal on a structural part of a vehicle, floor pan being structural.
 

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GM carries the whole floor pan if you're wanting to replace it entirely. I can't recall the retail cost, but last time I checked the price I could get them for around $375 - $400.
 

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skunkworks_zed said:
GM carries the whole floor pan if you're wanting to replace it entirely. I can't recall the retail cost, but last time I checked the price I could get them for around $375 - $400.
you'd be surprised on what GM has. it might not be in the computer, but they give a few calls and can locate just about anything for any vehicle.
 

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andystepper said:
ya rivets are fine to use...BUT YOU HAVE TO WELD STILL AND GRIND THE RIVETS OUT. im a journey man in autobody. i know my structural just as good as anyone else with a journeyman status. and also using flux core is illegal on a structural part of a vehicle, floor pan being structural.
thank you and i did not kno that it was illegal to use flux core wire but now i do. Never use it anyways cause it sux hard core but all the same good to know!! thanks dude

BTW My apologies to everyone for goin off at that guy! I tried to get my point across nicely but the ignorance of sum people!!

good luck with the floor bud!! Srcews or poprivits are only temporary to use as aids in order to make welding easier they boyh still need to be removed and screws are much easier and reuseable sometimes but as i have stated maby not in every province or state but here in New Brunswick it is illegal and for good reason so do your self a favor and weld the new pieces in and aviod the problems that rivits can cause as well as the longer you'll be able to enjoy you'r car if it's done properly!!
 

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i find it easier to use flat head self tapping screws. weld, and than grind the heads off. putty, or fibretech, or undercoating. no need to weld all the holes up that way and grind them off. much easier to grind a screw head off than a weld. and your not using as much heat.
 

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pretty much the same as I except i just un screw them after all welding is done, seam seal, paint and undercoat inside and out.
 

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I find that proform undercoating works the best as well it dosen't have a bad odur kinda smells like bubble gum lol
 
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